Summary of Huberman Lab Podcast Episode: The Science of Psychedelics for Mental Health with Robin Carhart-Harris
Podcast: Huberman Lab
7 min. read
— Description —
Discover how psychedelics can unlock a better version of yourself, with insights into the mind that cant be revealed otherwise Explore the brain-changing effects of psilocybin and the unique benefits of classic psychedelics like psilocybin and MDMA Uncover the key factors that influence psychedelic experiences and learn about the progress of the psychedelic renaissance
Dive into the world of psychedelics and unlock your true potential.
The Science of Psychedelics for Mental Health with Robin Carhart-Harris
Table of contents
Key Takeaways
Introduction
What Are Psychedelics?
Structural Brain Changes In The Brain
Dosing
Understanding Guided Psychedelic Therapy
Applications Of Guided Psychedelic Therapy
DMT (Dimethyltryptamine) & Ego Dissolution
Current Legal Landscape Of Psychedelics
Evolving Role Of Pharmaceutical Companies
Articles
Key Takeaways
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“Psychedelics seem to give people access to a better version of self.” – Dr. Andrew Huberman
- Possibly in part because of ego dissolution properties of psychedelics (versus ego inflation properties of drugs like cocaine)
- Psychedelics can reveal something about the mind that can’t be revealed otherwise – maybe because it’s masked, unconscious, or below the threshold of awareness
- Psilocybin changes the brain in a way that allows new ideas and new forms of learning to occur
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More classic psychedelics like psilocybin allow you to dive deeper into the uncomfortable in a way that MDMA does not
- MDMA is a strong empathogen for self and others
- The setting plays a huge role in the outcomes of psychedelic studies; features include: strategic music, eye mask, 2 non-using professionals + 1 client/patient, 1-3 sessions spread across a few weeks, integration with psychotherapy (talk therapy)
- Despite the massive attention it’s gotten, the evidence doesn’t currently support any benefits of microdosing – just macrodosing under clinical supervision
- The psychedelic renaissance has come a long way! From fringe science and taboo culture to a huge draw for donors and openly discussed and researched in academic settings
Introduction
- Robin Carhart-Harris, Ph.D. (@RCarhart-Harris) is a distinguished professor of neurology and psychiatry at the University of California, San Francisco. He is one of the leading researchers in the study of how psychedelics such as psilocybin, LSD, and DMT can change the human brain and successfully treat various mental health challenges such as major depression, anorexia, obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), and addiction.
- In this episode of Huberman Lab, Andrew Huberman sits down with Robin Carhart-Harris to break down the effects of psychedelic use on mental health. Dr. Carhart-Harris explains how psilocybin induces sustained changes in adaptive brain wiring and cognition, key components of safe and effective psychedelic journeys, the role of hallucinations, micro dosing vs. macro dosing, and much more.
- Host: Andrew Huberman (@hubermanlab)
What Are Psychedelics?
- The term ‘psychedelics’ originally referred to drugs that mimic aspects of psychosis in their action
- The Greek origin of the word psychedelic: psyche = soul; delic = make clear
- Psychedelic pharmacology: compounds that work on serotonin 2A receptor in the brain
- Psychedelics can reveal something about the mind that can’t be revealed otherwise – maybe because it’s masked, unconscious, or below the threshold of awareness
- There are aspects of our minds and psyche not fully available to our conscious state
Structural Brain Changes In The Brain
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Psychedelics allow for increased communication across brain areas that wouldn’t engage under normal circumstances, possibly via serotonin 2A receptor
- Increased consciousness and increased brain connection and communication happen in parallel but we don’t know causality, it’s more circular than linear
- An increase in global and functional connectivity persists after the trip, with residual effects up to three weeks long
Dosing
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Microdose: dose of classic psychedelic like LSD or psilocybin that does not put you into a noticeable state of altered consciousness or hallucination
- LSD microdose: around 10-12 micrograms (notice how small, LSD is particularly potent)
- A true microdose should be sub-perceptual – you shouldn’t feel it
- It’s hard to do studies with micro dosing and evidence of utility is thin
- Studies on ‘healthy’ individuals on micro dose of psilocybin observed no changes in brain activity (as measured by imaging)
- Dosing of mushroom vs psilocybin: 1000mg magic mushroom contains roughly 10mg psilocybin
Understanding Guided Psychedelic Therapy
- Environment: intentional music to match journey, eye mask, 2 professionals + individual who ingested drug
- All the published studies to date have music as a staple component of the environment – it would be interesting to see what happens if that was removed
- There’s often some initial anxiety when a patient enters for the first time, ‘letting go’ is a huge component of the experience itself
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Mantra of guided therapy: “trust, let go, be open”
- Therapeutic rapport measured by the subjective scale on the morning of dosing has a very strong correlation to the quality of experience on the drug and therapeutic outcomes later
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Phases of the journey: typically starts with some negative emotions and anxiety before the arc changes course
- The psychedelics break down a sense of self and control and it can induce some fear and anxiety – you feel like you’re losing it
- Sessions (usually 1-3) are typically spaced across a few weeks
- Psychedelics make it easier to open up and do the hard work, diving into previous trauma – it’s critical to use in conjunction with psychotherapy and possibly meditative practice as well
Applications Of Guided Psychedelic Therapy
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Anorexia trial: 3 sessions spaced two weeks apart showed alleviation of obsessive thoughts about food and improvement in weight
- As an aside, rates of anorexia have not increased despite what social media says
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About 70% experience relief from depressive symptoms (as compared to citalopram)
- Subjective pretrial expectancy about the efficacy of citalopram vs psilocybin did not predict the magnitude of response (suggesting the strength of psychedelic outcome is not a placebo response)
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Study on healthy volunteers given either placebo or psychedelic: improvements in psychological well-being, increase in information complexity of brain activity, and even anatomical changes were seen with large dose (25mg) as recorded by brain activity and scanning
- Anatomical changes are particularly interesting because the brain is fully developed at age 25 so this could have huge implications (of course, more studies need to be done)
- Studies on fibromyalgia with 25mg psilocybin are ongoing
- LSD is not used as much in trials because of the duration of the trip which lasts 8+ hours
- There is potential that future studies will explore the use of both MDMA and psilocybin sequentially or in combination because they elicit different strengths (of course with psychotherapy as well)
DMT (Dimethyltryptamine) & Ego Dissolution
- DMT has a very short duration but powerful experience
- DMT and 5-MeO-DMT are smoked
- 5-MeO-DMT is more of an ego dissolution experience and less visual hallucination
- Ego dissolution: a sense that we are not as important as we think, which is not a helpful way to live your life but does allow you self-examine and feel interconnectedness with others
- Ego dissolution from psychedelics is productive versus ego inflation effects seen with cocaine
- The paradox of psychedelic therapy is that the ego dissolution doesn’t last – the ego can come back with a vengeance if the user hasn’t done the integration (talk therapy) work properly
Current Legal Landscape Of Psychedelics
- In some California cities, you can purchase mushrooms over the counter at weed dispensaries
- Federally, FDA is close to legalizing MDMA for therapeutic use (currently in Phase III trials) of PTSD
- Psilocybin has also recently started Phase III trials for treatment-resistant depression
Evolving Role Of Pharmaceutical Companies
- Laboratories and pharmaceutical companies are attempting to create drugs that can cure depression and other mental health disorders without the hallucinations
- There would be much less stigma – people who would not be inclined to therapy and/or psychedelics would be drawn
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Cons: it’s rare to create something that is beneficial for the system and the end user – creating something that is synthetic is always going to have a different effect
- You’ll be able to get the pharmacology of psychedelics but would lose the ‘journey’ and experience of psychedelics and psychotherapy
Articles
- Self-blinding citizen science to explore psychedelic microdosing (eLife)
- Trial of Psilocybin versus Escitalopram for Depression (The New England Journal of Medicine)
- Pivotal mental states (Journal of Psychopharmacology)
- Increased global integration in the brain after psilocybin therapy for depression (Nature Medicine)
- Structure-based discovery of nonhallucinogenic psychedelic analogs (Science)
- Self-Medication for Chronic Pain Using Classic Psychedelics: A Qualitative Investigation to Inform Future Research (Frontiers in Psychiatry)
- MDMA-assisted therapy for severe PTSD: a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled phase 3 study (Nature Medicine)