Rick Rubin (@RickRubin) is one of the most renowned music producers of all time. He has worked with a wide range of artists, including the Run DMC, Beastie Boys, Red Hot Chili Peppers, JayZ, Adele, Johnny Cash, Tom Petty, Neil Young, and many more. He is also the author of a new book, The Creative Act: A Way of Being.
In this conversation, Rick Rubin and Andrew Huberman discuss how to access your creativity, finding inspiration, self-doubt, anxiety, meditation, distractions, music, scientific knowledge, public opinion, and so much more
Check out these Podcast Notes from Rick Rubin’s appearance on The Joe Rogan Experience
Host: Andrew Huberman (@hubermanlab)
Creativity is like your dreams: a series of abstract images that may not make sense to you, and you may forget it, but sometimes the concepts come back to you if you write it down
The creative process consists of making things and looking for feelings that arise within yourself, such as enthusiasm, excitement, curiosity, etc.
You follow the energy in your body when you want to know more about an idea that arises
The creative process is not an intellectual process; it is a different thing that is difficult to define
Language is insufficient to drill down on creativity
Creativity is closer to magic than it is to science
Kids are more open than adults because they have no baggage or belief system that skews their perspective
Kids just pay attention to what is, and if we pay attention to what is, then the purity of our creative process increases
Strictly adhering to “how things are supposed to be done” undermines the creative process
A new idea is a combination of existing ideas presented in a new way
Rick Rubin experiences a surge of energy when he is on the cusp of a creative breakthrough
The first time he experienced this surge was when he heard The Beatles at the age of three
The rules of art serve as scaffolding to be chipped away as need be
Rules are sometimes helpful, and sometimes they are not
Sometimes, having an infinite amount of choices does not lead to better work
Self-restricting your creative palette can force you to solve problems in a different way
The most important skill-set to develop as an artist is to understand how you feel in the face of other voices without second-guessing yourself, according to Rick Rubin
Know how you feel, and own your feelings
This does not mean your way is “right” for someone else
Rick chose to be an artist so he could share how he sees it
Undermining how you feel for a commercial interest defeats the entire purpose of being an artist
The creative process: “I am doing me, and I am showing you who I am, and you can like it or not but either way, this is still how I see it.”
People often do not know what they like; they like what people in their landscape also like, according to Dr. Andrew Huberman
Coming up with a story with the purpose of pleasing someone else is a skill set, but it is more of a commercial endeavor than an artistic endeavor
Artists create something new that others may have already known, but did not know that they knew it
The truth in a comedian’s joke is what makes it funny
Comedians say the truth in a way that has never been said before
The artist’s superpower is to accept that he does not know anything
Information from others can be helpful; do not instinctually react away from information
The only thing that we can control is how we relate to the thing that we make
Any external information that undermines the clarity of that connection is probably bad for the art
The only things that Rick Rubin has made are things that he liked or things he felt were missing – from the perspective of a fan
“It was always in the service of: ‘I love this thing. I want something like this. No one else is making one. I have to make one.’” – Rick Rubin on his motivation to create
It is difficult to finish a project because theoretically, you could continue to experiment with it and make changes in perpetuity
Use whatever it is the next project is going to be as motivation to finish whatever it is you are working on now
Use other projects as an impetus to finish your current project
“The Source” is the organizing principle of everything
Every natural phenomenon, new design, and machine are outgrowth of The Source
The physical world is constrained by the laws of physics, but the imagination is unconstrained; the work sits somewhere between these two
It is thrilling to see something from a new perspective
We are confronted with the mystery of the world when we change our perspective
Music is part of the definition of how we see ourselves, which is why it can be defined when consumed at earlier ages
Your creative pursuit should be true to what interests you
There are no outside distractions when Rick Rubin decides to focus on a project, whether it be for 20 minutes or five hours
He does his best to not think about the project when steps away from it
He does not engage with the process when he steps away from it for the day
Optimally, when he steps away from Project A, he has Project B to be fully focused on
Rick Rubin believes that his subconscious continues to work through the process even when he is not directly focused on it
To stew over a problem is not to solve a problem, according to Rick Rubin
Rick has a sense of anxiety when he starts a new project because he knows that whatever is going to happen is completely out of his control
Something, whether interesting or not, will appear, and then he will follow that wherever it goes
He has a lot of anxiety until something appears that he can follow
Show up and be ready for the “something” to appear
Rick rarely observes the chaotic parts of artists; they tend not to show that side of them to Rick
Comedians tend to be much more serious about what they do than what you see on stage
When creating, Rick is in the metaphorical cloud while also being aware of what could go wrong on the technical side
When something good is happening, be sure not to lose it
Do not break any flow once it is happening
Once something begins to happen, sit back and watch
“Our whole lives are reacting to things, making up a story of what we think may have happened without realizing that’s what we’re doing, and then living the rest of our lives as if that thing that we made up really happened. And we never know.” – Rick Rubin
We are the storytelling species, paraphrasing Salman Rushdie
Our memories are entirely confabulated based on already deficient symbol and perceptual representation
“It’s all lies. Back to nature, the only truth.” – Rick Rubin on the media machine
Our resolution is so low on everything that we are grasping at straws; we really have no idea what is happening
There is great power in knowing that we do not know anything
“If you think you know what is going on, chances are, you are being deceived.” – Rick Rubin
Not because someone is deceiving you, but because they are telling you what they see, and they do not ultimately know either
The fact that everything around us is made up is why pro wrestling is closer to reality than anything else that we can watch
Pro wrestling is real, and the world is fake
Consider that the inverse is true at all times
Rick enjoys the playfulness that wrestling maintains, and watching it helps him relax
We expect the unexpected all the time in wrestling
Wrestling has the energy of a sport, but without the competition; the wrestlers are working together to put on the best show possible
Pro wrestling is more like a ballet than a sporting event
Pro-wrestling is honest at what it is in a world where seemingly nothing is honest at what it is
Not because people are lying, but because we can only begin to understand the data of the world to a certain degree
Even though it is scripted and pre-determined, pro-wrestling is alive with charisma and storytelling
Rick loves pro-wrestling because something interesting and unexpected is always happening
Rick is not attached to anything in the past, whether that be New York City or a beach in Hawaii
His optics are only present and forward
Nostalgia is not in Rick Rubin’s brain
Rick wakes up slowly in the morning; he likes to not engage with too much, too soon
He typically falls asleep listening to a lecture or to someone speaking in an effort to not get caught in his own thoughts
He wakes up and tries to get in the sun as soon as he can
After waking up and spending an hour or so in the sun, he will go for a 60-90 minute walk on the beach
He will mostly be alone on these walks, listening to a podcast, lecture, or audiobook
There are four phases to Rick Rubin’s creative process: seed collecting, experimentation, crafting, and completion
“Seed collecting” is the first phase, which is identifying anything that interests Rick
“Experimentation” is the next phase where he sees what the seeds want to do
This is the stage-setting phase
“Crafting” is the third phase where he makes adjustments and combinations to what has sprouted
“Completion” is the final stage where final edits are made
These phases do not have strict boundaries and he commonly moves back and forth between them
He used to think that setting deadlines was bad, but not anymore
Rick recommends setting internal deadlines to help you finish the project, but does not recommend setting external deadlines
Self-doubt exists in each of us
Self-doubt is a check on yourself; it can either be really helpful, or it can undermine you
Self-doubt can serve as a balancing tool in our lives
You can doubt your way to a great work
You can have all the confidence in the world and still wonder if improvements can be made to something that you are creating
Rick aims to create real moments in the studio that do not sound perfect, but that sound like something really happened at that moment
Challenge your assumption that the way you work is the best way, simply because it is the way that you have done it before
When something works, it is easy to be fooled into believing that that is the right way to do it
It is not necessarily the right way; instead, it is a way that happened to work at that time
Consider that the advice a person gives you is based on their experiences, not yours
Maybe they are giving you good advice, but maybe the advice is good for them, and not for you
It is hard enough to figure out what is right for ourselves, let alone what is right for others
Do not get comfortable with thinking you know how it works just because you get the outcome that you want
Nutrition was once considered an after-thought by the public, who thought the medicines you took were more important than the food you ate
If someone has an idea, try it; if it does not work, that is okay, try another idea
Rick Rubin is an empiricist
“Whatever works” is best
Rick has tried “very fringey” things; the more unrealistic it seems, the more interesting it is to him because it feels like someone does not want him to know about it
The world gives you creative clues all the time if you are paying attention
Pay attention and you will see and hear things that spark creativity
The universe is on the same team as creativity
“What we believe has power. If we believe we could make something great, the chances of us making something great are better than if we don’t believe we can.” – Rick Rubin
The most important part of the creative process is having the ability to stay present in the work
Strictly from the creative perspective, the ability to focus is more important than whether or not you are happy (to a point)
It isa problem if your unhappiness gets in the way of the connection with how the work makes you feel
Mantra meditation is a single-focus exercise that focuses you on the breath or a mantra instead of your self-talk
Awareness meditation is being with whatever is in the present moment
You do not “think” in meditation
Rick Rubin started meditating at the age of 14
He has mostly done transcendental meditation throughout his life
Meditation is one of the first things that he does each day
There are many meditation-like practices too, such as a walk on the beach
There is no right or wrong way to meditate; learn a technique, show up and do it, and if it works, then it works